Rope,

Cannoli, ... for myself, I will follow the years of the Catholic tradition which I was brought up in and for what was held down through the centuries.

1) Nobody is telling you not to do so. The question is do the words “thee” and “thou” and “you” have the same meaning? I challenge you to prove that they are not exactly the same in meaning and significance and differ only in spelling and pronunciation.
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This is what happens when we play with our grammar.

2) No. That's what happens when you go to some greasy spoon for lunch where they hire anyone who is relatively competent and who has a pleasant appearance. If you want first class treatment, go to a first class restaurant (white cloth tablecloths and white cloth napkins) and this kind of thing will not happen.
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When we start mixing and changing our words, our vocabulary and its original meaning, we will and have found ourselves declining and declining into an abstract and confused environment.

3) Look, over time customs change, vocabulary changes (see Negro, Coloreds, Blacks, African-Americans) and society changes as well. Is there less respect today for authority? Yes. Is there less trust for public officials and for clerics? Yes, of course and that loss of trust has been brought upon largely by their own actions.

However, we are talking about “thee” vs. “you.” This is not a significant change nor is it an important issue since the words mean EXACTLY the same thing. However, for reasons of sentimentality or nostalgia, some people will vociferously complain about how the Ave is now being taught to young skulls full of mush. As I've written in my previous message, there are more pressing issues for traditionalists to tackle than this one.
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Cannoli...do as you wish, God gave you a free will.

Do you know what is more important than free will? Our ability to reason is much more important for without it we could have no free will. If trauma or disease should affect our cognitive ability as it does in so many unfortunate people, what free will remains? The ability to record information objectively, to analyze the data objectively, and to make judgments accordingly is the necessary predecessor for any act of the will.

Cannoli...do as you wish, God gave you a free will.

Today is Sunday, Rope. After mass, my free will is going to take me to an Italian bakery to buy nice fresh Cannoli because Cannoli makes me happy. I would strongly suggest that you do the same but, Rope, “do as you wish, God gave you a free will.”

Cannoli, ... for myself, I will follow the years of the Catholic tradition which I was brought up in and for what was held down through the centuries.

One afternoon, I was in a restaurant with a priest and nun, ...the waitress came up and asked us, "are you guys ready to order". This is what happens when we play with our grammar. My Italian Grandmother, (rest her soul), was to the people who knew her a little living saint. A quiet, dedicated, loving wife, mother of nine and grandmother who was married for 68 yrs to one man. She spoke not one unkind word about anyone, walked through 3 ft of snow in the winter to get to the 6:30 Mass, so she could get home to finish with her Sunday meal preparation. She always had the rosary nearby to pray, she lived a truly holy life. I could not imagine anyone addressing her as a "guy". Our world has been lead into a unisex language, dress, mannerisms to where even adults will refer to a religious (female) as "guy". When we start mixing and changing our words, our vocabulary and its original meaning, we will and have found ourselves declining and declining into an abstract and confused environment. How many children and teens do you see and hear address adults as Mr. and Mrs. anymore? They call them by their first names. Forty years ago, a child would surely have gotten reprimanded by their parents or even punished, as they saw this as a sign of disrespect. And as St. Angela Merici once said, "When the society becomes broken, it is the result of broken families." So, to Our Lady, the Queen of Heaven and Earth; a Mother most Chaste; a Mother Most Pure; a Vessel Of Honor; Queen of the Patriarchs; Mother of Our Creator, to thee do we cry in this valley of tears.

Cannoli...do as you wish, God gave you a free will.

Rope,

>>>before modernism had spread its errors.

Your quarrel and the quarrel of many other Catholics at this site is with the numerous errors of modernism. I understand and agree fully with you. However, this (thee or you) is not one of the crucial issues in our struggle.

>>>the change of "thou" into "you", would very often make the sentence of a doubtful signification..."

“Doubtful signification”? Without any doubt, I know the signification of who is being addressed with the words thee or you. What other signification is there?

>>>"to speak to God by "thou" and "thee", is to pay greater honour and veneration to the grandeur and majesty of God.

How do you suppose the authors of that preface of the New Testament arrived at the conclusion that “thou” and “thee” is to pay greater “honour and veneration to the grandeur and majesty of God"?

>>>And the angel being come in, said unto her:"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Luke 1:28

So, the heavenly messenger spoke to the Blessed Mother in English and used the word “thou” instead of “you”?

There are many battles to be fought in this struggle against modernism but I don't personally think this is a worthwhile one. By the way, “Pro multis” – what any first year Latin student knows means “for many” – is one of those battles and, as I understand, we have won that one and (who knows when) it will be corrected. I remember the contortions in logic that the neo-Cats have continually used in trying to defend the modernist “for all” translation.

On a related issue, in making the Sign of the Cross, how do you address the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity? Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit?

Cannoli...don't know if you attended Catholic schools throughout your years, or I should say before modernism had spread its errors. In Catholic school we were Always taught to pray referring to the Blessed Mother as thee or thou, never, "you"....like you or me. We are Not perfect, she was and is, as she brought forth in her womb, the Savior of the world. Tradition! Hold on to tradition!

I remember reading in a preface of the New Testament, first published by the English College at Rheims, A.D. 1582 translated from the Latin Vulgate with some Useful Notes, Historical and Explanatory. In it, it states, "to speak to God by "thou" and "thee", is to pay greater honour and veneration to the grandeur and majesty of God. And yet it is certain, they sound more awkwardly in the French language than in English; for, hitherto, both Catholics and Protestants have used them in their English Scriptures and Prayer Books, though the French not so frequently: we have also another reason for retaining them in the Scripture; for the change of "thou" into "you", would very often make the sentence of a doubtful signification..."

In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galille, called Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her:"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."
Luke 1:28

Rope,

What's the difference between "with thee" and "with you" and "tecum"?