@BM- you made some good points. I agree, the crisis in the Church has come from the top down. There is no denying it. In addition, you are right, that a council’s documents should not have to be hermeneutically analyzed ad nauseam. All previous councils, further defined the truths of dogma, but VII did not do this. This condition is a crisis that is deconstructing the Church, but I don’t think that it will ever be annulled, or mistakes admitted by many in the hierarchy. Personally, I just ignore all of the novelties, since they are not de fide, and stick with tradition, and I teach my kids from the Baltimore and Trent catechisms.
Pax exitus

Where is the history or precedence of any Church council ever needing hermeneutics to give interpretation to the proper teaching of what the council just taught, right after that council? It is ridiculous to think the Holy Ghost would open the door to such confusion. Councils are design to give clarity not cause confusion

Name me one thing so profoundly taught in the Vatican II council –that we did not already know or honor before the V2???---Nothing---V2 opened the door to novelty—confusion---sin—liberalism---destruction—falling away of the faithful in massive numbers and heresy in her wake. Annul the Council and return to Tradition---V2 was a flop

A council’s job is to gives clarity to Church teaching and settles issues of questions---does not cause chaos, confusion and destruction such as V2 did. From the top down on top of it. This destruction did not come from the laity or a few pockets of bad priest---but an well orchestrated and well planned and design of destruction from the Chair of St. Peter on down. Look at history and be honest with oneself.

Remember these V2 popes where the Fathers of the Councils---they wrote and voted for the councils---if anyone would know the proper interpretation of the council—it would be them—surely they would interpret the teachings correctly and not give us: Altar Girls, “removing the high altars, the tabernacle from its central place, building churches without kneelers, or church architecture that is modern, ugly, and banal”. But in fact they did just that and gave many other form of destruction and happened right under their very watch and in many cases with their approval or they turned a blind eye to the many evils going on around them.

They were and are in supreme authority and control at the time of all this new destruction was popping up and growing---they are at the helm of the ship directing the faithful and giving the interpretation of V2---they are selecting and promoting the Bishops and Cardinals to implement the V2 teachings---handpicked and hand select by these V2 popes---this was their baby. Sure if anyone would know how to implement the council it would be these men---but yet they failed and failed greatly if this was the case. But it not the only case---V2 documents are written ambiguous for a reason and written with double meaning for a purpose. Never has council written like this or opened the door up to such confusion of Her teachings or double meanings as V2 does. Several of council’s documents have heretical errors in them and are rupture from Tradition.
These progressives—where the V2 popes and the people they put in power and who they evaluated were the liberals they promoted. Do not fool yourself---read the history---they were proud of their radical changes and proud of the liberal appointments they made in their days and now they are trying to rewrite their blood trail. It the sign of a modernist

Vatican II did have some questionable elements in ecumenism and the change of the Mass, which seems to be something that occured because of movements in the Church that were already happening in subversive ways by minor subversive groups. Somehow those groups got the right people in power in the right ways and they butchered the mass. When Pope John XXIII has been found, as I have heard but I have not seen, incorrupt after death makes me question wether the negativity directed at Vatican II is entirely legitimit. I can see where it got tripped up, and why everything got as messed up as it did, but after researching quite a bit Vatican II was more legit than not. What was and still is not legit is what certain Cardinals are doing within the Church and lack of transparency and lack of ablity to stop anything that maybe working against the Church within the Church itself. It is a mess and it is easy to blame Vatican II but it's not just Vatican II. It's lack of ablity to clean house and edracicate the evil that the pride of being in a position of power brings.

IMHO, I think that one has to make a distinction between the writings of the VII Council Fathers of the Church and the hermeneutics and interpretation of the documents. I have read some of the documents, and they can be interpreted within a continuity of tradition. However, many progressives who were able to infiltrate teaching and seminary positions, as well as positions within the Church herself promulgated a noetic re-orientation that interprets it as a break from tradition albeit the documents themselves do not a fortiori break with Catholic tradition. Just try to ask a progressive priest, or religious the question on or about any novelty: “where is that in the document of VII?” They can’t answer it, because the documents don’t call for removing the high altars, the tabernacle from its central place, building churches without kneelers, or church architecture that is modern, ugly, and banal. Moreover, it doesn't call for altar girls, rock music, rejection of latin, or any other faith squelching elements of modernism.

Kindly focus your posts on the subject matter of the thread.

If you continue to refuse to cooperate, you will be prohibited from posting on any News-Briefs articles.

Thank you for your cooperation.

V2 caused rotten fruit---it their trademark---anyone old enough to see both sides before and after would honestly say V2 caused tremendous rotten fruit and still is.

We float in liberalism, sin, heresy and Protestantism in our parishes today---calling it Catholicism—most the young have a blended idea of heresy, Protestantism and Catholicism today if they are even still in the Church at all.

You got JP2 kissing Korans and V2 popes stating that other religions are meanings of salvation and that Church of Christ means more than just the Bride of Christ the Catholic Church and made up of a body of other religions---all these against Church teaching and against Her very holy dogmas and I challenge anyone to find these teaching taught officially by the Church before V2---She condemned them.

The list could be pages and pages or heresy, scandals, death to faithful--much from the hierarchy themselves changing what was Catholic to a new form of worship and new religion--with new practices and new theology---everything was touched or changed after V2---from the Rosary to Our Father prayer, to the very Mass itself. Small or big---V2 affected it all in a negative way.

Look around you----majority Catholics voted for Obama, are for abortion, use birth control, don’t go to Mass regularly, do not believe in True Presence, believe in premarital sex, are for homosexual rights, think Protestantism is just the same as Catholicism, etc---all rotten fruit—not the fruit of the Holy Ghost.

Any one that V2 was good for the Church is a fool and is bring on this just coming Chastisement to us for what they have done to His Bride---made He a commit adultery with protestant faiths in the name of ecumenism---shame on you---repent and ask forgiveness---not beat your chest in defiance to God Holy Church and perennial teachings for a new way of sin.

As Christ said by their fruits you shall know them. V2 is rotten as a Banana on hot day sin July sitting on your car's back dash for 5 days.

You're a typical neo-Catholic.

In spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary showing a very clear decline in vocations post VC-II, you insist on denying all that evidence and make some foolish comparison with Islam.

Personally, I think the VII Council was good;
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Douay-Rheims Bible
By their fruits you shall know them.
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Combine the statistics in the news article printed here with the world wide sex abuse scandal and coverup by Catholic hierarcy, the fruits of your "good" council were rotten and an abysmal failure. You're living in denial if you think otherwise.