Benedict XVI wearing a chasuble (on Good Friday) from the pontificate of Pope Pius IX (mid 19th century).
Sean Johnson
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In the fully traditional rite (ie., pre-Bugnini/Pius XII), it would have been black. But isn’t that the essence of BXVI’s pontificate: Every seemingly traditional gesture was always a reinforcement of the modernist revolution)?
Matt Stand
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Wrong. Originally it was dark (fuscus) but became either red or black depending on the rite and local custom:
John A Cassani
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@Matt Stand Please. It was already black by the days of Innocent III, and for the sake of this argument, “fully traditional” is defined here as pre-1955 (as that was when the Holy Week Rites were ruined, as well as a huge revision of the calendar). Pope Pius IX never wore red on Good Friday.
Matt Stand
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@John A Cassani Please. As stated, traditionally it is red or black depending on the rite or custom - the Sarum rite is older than Innocent III.
And who’s to say Pius IX didn’t wear red?
“The Ceremonies of Holy-Week at Rome” (1846) have the pope in a red cope and the cardinals dressed in purple:More
@John A Cassani Please. As stated, traditionally it is red or black depending on the rite or custom - the Sarum rite is older than Innocent III.
And who’s to say Pius IX didn’t wear red?
“The Ceremonies of Holy-Week at Rome” (1846) have the pope in a red cope and the cardinals dressed in purple:
And who’s to say Pius IX didn’t wear red?
“The Ceremonies of Holy-Week at Rome” (1846) have the pope in a red cope and the cardinals dressed in purple:
Sean Johnson
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@Matt Stand Why do you keep embarrassing yourself with such dishonest and incompetent arguments??
Matt Stand
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@Sean Johnson why don’t you quit while you’re behind? You really are embarrassing the “traditional Catholic” cause (whatever that is). I always thought you lot were superior Catholics (or like to portray yourselves as such) and yet it’s so easy to rebut what you write. But this time I simply quoted from the St. Paul’s Ecclesiastical Society. Yes, this current beatdown is from the hands of …More
@Sean Johnson why don’t you quit while you’re behind? You really are embarrassing the “traditional Catholic” cause (whatever that is). I always thought you lot were superior Catholics (or like to portray yourselves as such) and yet it’s so easy to rebut what you write. But this time I simply quoted from the St. Paul’s Ecclesiastical Society. Yes, this current beatdown is from the hands of Anglicans.
p.s. you’re clearly oblivious to the fact that the pope only wears white and red.
p.p.s. in case you hadn’t noticed Gloria.TV removed your other antisemitic post.
p.s. you’re clearly oblivious to the fact that the pope only wears white and red.
p.p.s. in case you hadn’t noticed Gloria.TV removed your other antisemitic post.
Matt Stand
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@John A Cassani @Sean Johnson
An ERRATA in the book (1885) on liturgical colours:
“At the present time the Pope, when pontificating, no longer follows the Innocentian sequence, but uses only red and white vestments, even on Good Friday…”
So says a Papal Chamberlain.
That’s game, set and match to me. 
(thanks to my Anglo-Catholic friends).More
@John A Cassani @Sean Johnson
An ERRATA in the book (1885) on liturgical colours:
“At the present time the Pope, when pontificating, no longer follows the Innocentian sequence, but uses only red and white vestments, even on Good Friday…”
So says a Papal Chamberlain.
That’s game, set and match to me. (thanks to my Anglo-Catholic friends).
An ERRATA in the book (1885) on liturgical colours:
“At the present time the Pope, when pontificating, no longer follows the Innocentian sequence, but uses only red and white vestments, even on Good Friday…”
So says a Papal Chamberlain.
That’s game, set and match to me.
Sean Johnson
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Uhh...except that once again you drift from the subject (i.e., Nobody is discussing what color Pius IX wore, but whether or not the liturgical color of Good Friday before Pius XII was black...which it indisputably was).
Matt Stand
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@Sean Johnson no, because you wrote it was black before VII and I’ve shown it was not. It was red for Pius IX and his successor Leo XIII. And it was also red for Gregory XVI.
And this is why you can’t prove black was ever worn (after Pius IX): because it NEVER was! 
This is why you can’t reference a single document!
But just to rub more salt into your wounded ego, the pope has only worn white …More
@Sean Johnson no, because you wrote it was black before VII and I’ve shown it was not. It was red for Pius IX and his successor Leo XIII. And it was also red for Gregory XVI.
And this is why you can’t prove black was ever worn (after Pius IX): because it NEVER was! This is why you can’t reference a single document!
But just to rub more salt into your wounded ego, the pope has only worn white or red since Benedict XVI’s namesake, Benedict XIII! A nice irony:
And this is why you can’t prove black was ever worn (after Pius IX): because it NEVER was!
But just to rub more salt into your wounded ego, the pope has only worn white or red since Benedict XVI’s namesake, Benedict XIII! A nice irony
Sean Johnson
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@Matt Stand Sorry, but your error was already pointed out to you way back in the 2nd response in this thread by John Cassani.
Matt Stand
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@Sean Johnson he didn’t, he was referencing from the quote of the book I uploaded - don’t be scared to linked him in @John A Cassani, (not for the first time, it seems to be a trait of yours to slip one under). The fact is, since at least Benedict XIII, the pope has worn red on Good Friday. Fact. And, as always, you can’t produce anything contrary.